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	<title>Comments on: Buma/Stemra charges bloggers 130+ euro for YouTube vids</title>
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	<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/</link>
	<description>Dutch things pressed for your pleasure</description>
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		<title>By: 24 oranges &#187; BUMA/Stemra puts blogger&#8217;s tax off for a year, closes deal with Youtube</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3630</link>
		<dc:creator>24 oranges &#187; BUMA/Stemra puts blogger&#8217;s tax off for a year, closes deal with Youtube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 07:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3630</guid>
		<description>[...] Nederlandse Toonkunstenaarsbond, has urgently requested that BUMA/Stemra apologize over the heavy-handed manner in which it introduced its tax for embedded videos. Chairman Erwin Angad-Gaur fears the society&#8217;s tactics have damaged the reputations of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nederlandse Toonkunstenaarsbond, has urgently requested that BUMA/Stemra apologize over the heavy-handed manner in which it introduced its tax for embedded videos. Chairman Erwin Angad-Gaur fears the society&#8217;s tactics have damaged the reputations of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hulu&#8217;s New Embed Policy Can Only Hurt It</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3535</link>
		<dc:creator>Hulu&#8217;s New Embed Policy Can Only Hurt It</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3535</guid>
		<description>[...] natural to want to take a cut. In a similar vein, the Dutch music rights association Buma/Stemra announced next year it will charge bloggers and video collection sites like Yubby a fee of 130 Euros for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] natural to want to take a cut. In a similar vein, the Dutch music rights association Buma/Stemra announced next year it will charge bloggers and video collection sites like Yubby a fee of 130 Euros for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mandy Lane</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3443</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandy Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3443</guid>
		<description>Youtube is my favorite website and i am so addicted in watching music videos in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Youtube is my favorite website and i am so addicted in watching music videos in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Musikverwertung &#8211; Sind wir so blöd wie die Holländer?</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3362</link>
		<dc:creator>Musikverwertung &#8211; Sind wir so blöd wie die Holländer?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3362</guid>
		<description>[...] In holl&#228;ndischen Blogs wird es wohl ab n&#228;chstem Jahr keine YouTube-Videos zu sehen geben. Ab n&#228;chstem Jahr verlangt Buma/Stemra von den Bloggern richtig Kohle. So rechnet Laut.de aus, das das Einbetten von [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In holl&#228;ndischen Blogs wird es wohl ab n&#228;chstem Jahr keine YouTube-Videos zu sehen geben. Ab n&#228;chstem Jahr verlangt Buma/Stemra von den Bloggern richtig Kohle. So rechnet Laut.de aus, das das Einbetten von [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Branko Collin</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3356</link>
		<dc:creator>Branko Collin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3356</guid>
		<description>Arnoud, I agree that a web server is different from a photo copier at the library, because with the web server you can at least assume that you have an implicit license to make copies, as the person putting documents in the server&#039;s document root can be assumed to either be the copyright holder or have a license from the copyright holder.

Web servers however aren&#039;t smart enough to decide without fail who the recipient of any given copy will be. You can apply heuristics to make sure a large enough number of people get included and excluded from receiving a copy, but you can never reach everyone. To give a simple example: you can try and block other servers from leeching your images, but only if the thieving party is honest enough to tell your web server who they are (Referrer).

We&#039;ve tried that with 24 Oranges, and the problem is you either need to build a blacklist (which with a popular site can get bloated), or assume everybody is a bad actor and accept that some good actors will be blocked.

In other words, most webservers will serve copies to anybody who&#039;s asking.

But publication is not the same as copying, and I am not sure why you assume the same rules have to apply. To get back to your example of a picture book where the user has to provide the photos: a website with embedded videos is more like a picture book where the picture book provides the photos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arnoud, I agree that a web server is different from a photo copier at the library, because with the web server you can at least assume that you have an implicit license to make copies, as the person putting documents in the server&#8217;s document root can be assumed to either be the copyright holder or have a license from the copyright holder.</p>
<p>Web servers however aren&#8217;t smart enough to decide without fail who the recipient of any given copy will be. You can apply heuristics to make sure a large enough number of people get included and excluded from receiving a copy, but you can never reach everyone. To give a simple example: you can try and block other servers from leeching your images, but only if the thieving party is honest enough to tell your web server who they are (Referrer).</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve tried that with 24 Oranges, and the problem is you either need to build a blacklist (which with a popular site can get bloated), or assume everybody is a bad actor and accept that some good actors will be blocked.</p>
<p>In other words, most webservers will serve copies to anybody who&#8217;s asking.</p>
<p>But publication is not the same as copying, and I am not sure why you assume the same rules have to apply. To get back to your example of a picture book where the user has to provide the photos: a website with embedded videos is more like a picture book where the picture book provides the photos.</p>
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		<title>By: koenski</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3355</link>
		<dc:creator>koenski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3355</guid>
		<description>ARe you out of your freakin´ mind?.Paying for a You Tube video on my own blog?.I deeply hate all those private marketeers who want to cash in from the internet, and where to go ?.The poor receiving end of the web, the blogger and potetial music buyers.
It is disgusting to agree with these idiots, once a foot in the door, every year the price will increase.It´s just like the new Ov traincard, no more one way tickets, etc.
Morones ..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ARe you out of your freakin´ mind?.Paying for a You Tube video on my own blog?.I deeply hate all those private marketeers who want to cash in from the internet, and where to go ?.The poor receiving end of the web, the blogger and potetial music buyers.<br />
It is disgusting to agree with these idiots, once a foot in the door, every year the price will increase.It´s just like the new Ov traincard, no more one way tickets, etc.<br />
Morones ..</p>
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		<title>By: 24 oranges &#187; Anne Frank film, Miep Gies asteroid</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3344</link>
		<dc:creator>24 oranges &#187; Anne Frank film, Miep Gies asteroid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3344</guid>
		<description>[...] that if the people over at Dutch copyright collection agency Buma Stemra have their way, we won&#8217;t be able to show you fun vids anymore because it would cost us [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that if the people over at Dutch copyright collection agency Buma Stemra have their way, we won&#8217;t be able to show you fun vids anymore because it would cost us [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Arnoud Engelfriet</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3341</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnoud Engelfriet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 09:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3341</guid>
		<description>Linking is different from other forms of &quot;placing in a different context&quot; because with linking you don&#039;t actually do the inclusion. You arrange for a third party (e.g. Youtube) to provide the work.

In the cable TV rulings by the Dutch Supreme Court the TV providers were republishing the works via cable. This I can understand: they retransmitted the works as they were picked up from the air. In the Poortvliet case Hovener redistributed the photos. If he had merely sold the calendar with empty placeholders for Poortvliet pictures, would he infringe?

Do I infringe copyrights if I publish a book with boxes where you can place stickers of football players? In my view you only infringe if you sell the stickers as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linking is different from other forms of &#8220;placing in a different context&#8221; because with linking you don&#8217;t actually do the inclusion. You arrange for a third party (e.g. Youtube) to provide the work.</p>
<p>In the cable TV rulings by the Dutch Supreme Court the TV providers were republishing the works via cable. This I can understand: they retransmitted the works as they were picked up from the air. In the Poortvliet case Hovener redistributed the photos. If he had merely sold the calendar with empty placeholders for Poortvliet pictures, would he infringe?</p>
<p>Do I infringe copyrights if I publish a book with boxes where you can place stickers of football players? In my view you only infringe if you sell the stickers as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Orangemaster</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3339</link>
		<dc:creator>Orangemaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 19:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3339</guid>
		<description>Branko was in a rush, we work hard here :) But I still agree with Engelfriet&#039;s line &quot;linking is not a form of publication (&#039;openbaarmaking&#039; in Dutch).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Branko was in a rush, we work hard here :) But I still agree with Engelfriet&#8217;s line &#8220;linking is not a form of publication (&#8217;openbaarmaking&#8217; in Dutch).</p>
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		<title>By: Branko Collin</title>
		<link>http://www.24oranges.nl/2009/10/03/bumastemra-charges-bloggers-130-euro-for-youtube-vids/comment-page-1/#comment-3338</link>
		<dc:creator>Branko Collin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.24oranges.nl/?p=6051#comment-3338</guid>
		<description>Sorry Paulus, I was in a hurry. I think it is unconvincing because by embedding another work, you place it in a different context. Which to me constitutes a different form, and therefore an &#039;openbaarmaking,&#039; publication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Paulus, I was in a hurry. I think it is unconvincing because by embedding another work, you place it in a different context. Which to me constitutes a different form, and therefore an &#8216;openbaarmaking,&#8217; publication.</p>
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